Episode 14: The Sex Lives of African Women Pt. 1

In this episode of the podcast, I share where I am in my personal journey of settling into a new environment, learning to swim, and reflecting on her emotional growth. I discuss the challenges of my recent move, the comfort I’m finding in new and old routines, and the significance of her swimming lessons as a metaphor for overcoming fears. I continue by also diving into my thoughts on the book "The Sex Lives of African Women" by Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah, which focuses on advocating for women's sexual agency and the importance of prioritizing personal pleasure and self-awareness in sexual relationships.

TRANSCRIPT

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Amaka 00:00:14 Hey, guys. How is it going? Welcome back. Welcome back to the podcast. It's me Amaka. You know what it is? it is the Biblio Therapy for Black Women podcast. I am your host, and my setup right now is the same as last time. I'm in my car. I'm at the park. I got my portable desk set up, my laptop, my microphone, my notes are in my lap. So it's looking like for the foreseeable future that this will be my situation and it's working. So, you know, if it's not broke, don't no need to fix it or whatever that's saying is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Right. I think so yeah, it is just after 730 in the morning, which might sound very early for some folks, eastern time in the States. And I say that because thankfully I have a few listeners outside of the country. So I'm grateful for you guys. I listen to this podcast, wherever you are, anywhere in the world.

Amaka 00:01:40 So it is 730 in the morning, eastern time in the States, and I'm at the park. It's pretty quiet. There are some cars in the parking lot. There are people kind of going from morning walks. It's very serene, very calm, very tranquil And I actually think this is a good place to do this because they're really no distractions. I'm just looking at trees and sky and, there is a road not too far off, but not close enough to where, like the noise would be an issue. It's a little isolated, but in a good way, you know? So I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good about kind of continuing this for as long as I do. So yeah. How am I doing? I'm doing good. I'm doing well. And it's funny how, you know, those words are so small. But in my mind, as I say them, so many things are like going through my head. and I'll go into a little bit of detail. So it's been just over three months since starting my job and moving here, and I am finally starting to feel a little bit more like myself before I moved, which is huge for me.

Amaka 00:03:21 I feel like I have been trying to get to that place, and I don't think it's I don't think it's about really me like romanticizing or kind of being really nostalgic about my life before moving. I don't think that's it. I just think there was, I don't know, I liked who I was before I moved, not saying I don't like myself now, but I just like how I felt. I felt a little differently. I felt a little less stressed. And, you know, I was kind of in my groove. I, you know, nothing was new and I was just enjoying things, you know, now with the transition, a lot of that comfort was removed, you know, as it goes with new things, new places, new endeavors. You do not feel quite as comfortable. and, you know, the term comfort sometimes has a negative connotation, but I, I just mean comfort in terms of not I, I guess I mean comfort in terms of not being as stressed or, you know, kind of just having my anchors, what I call, you know, things in new spaces.

Amaka 00:04:55 That helped me start to feel settled. So I was starting to kind of beginning to feel that way this past weekend, and it felt really good. I remember coming out of Trader Joe's last weekend and kind of just taking my groceries to the car and sitting down, and I was like, maybe it was because I was just in Trader Joe's. That might be it, but I feel like I'm still feeling that way. I just got into the car and I was like, I have not felt this way since I got here. Like, I just feel. Better. Better. In terms of anchors for me. Trader Joe's is big. That's my kind of go to grocery store. Any time I moved like through my 20s when I had discovered Trader Joe's, anytime I would move, I would look for the nearest Trader Joe's. When I lived in Delaware, I drove about maybe 15 20 minutes to the nearest Trader Joe's. Every week. Every couple of weeks. When I lived in Maryland, I would drive about 25 to 30 minutes to my nearest Trader Joe's.

Amaka 00:06:22 And then when I lived in Philly, the distance was shorter. Thankfully, depending on which one I went to, I started going to one that was about like 20 minutes away. And then I just decided to start going to the one in downtown because it had a parking lot, thankfully. So that was about 15 minutes. And now, having moved, oh, and then Connecticut. Connecticut. Thankfully my Trader Joe's was not too far. On a good day, it took me ten minutes to get there. 10 to 12 minutes. So now, with New York, the annoying thing is, something can be really close to you, but because of traffic, it could take you an hour to get there. So I've been trying to figure out there are a couple of Trader Joes within like 20, 25 minutes from me, but that's like if traffic is good. and I think I've kind of settled on one, that the road isn't the type to where I'll be on, like, a crazy highway that is prone to excessive traffic.

Amaka 00:07:25 So it'll be about 20 minutes. and I like the location. and it's pretty nicely stocked, so I think that's going to be my anchor here after three months. And another anchor that I typically try to nail down is a gym. that took a little while for me here, but like I mentioned, I think last episode or the previous one, I'm a member of my local YMCA and I am taking swimming lessons there. That's a good place for working out for me, but unfortunately their cardio equipment, their cardio equipment selection is not that great. So I am also subscribed to Planet Fitness nearby me because they have a good like a very good amount of cardio equipment, along with weights and stuff. So I am a member of both locations for different needs. So yeah. so typically it's the grocery store for me. Typically it's the gym also too. I like to have a park that I can go to to walk, and that's actually the park where I'm at right now. But fortunately Queens has very good parks and they have it has a good amount of parks.

Amaka 00:08:52 So like and they're very well kept and maintained. So, you know, even if I didn't feel like coming to this particular park there like so many other options and they're not too far away from me. So I'm definitely looking forward to the warmer weather and being out and just, you know, kind of walking and being with my thoughts and, you know, the whole deal. So, yeah, I guess I say all of that to say I'm doing better, like genuinely doing better. And I'm looking forward to, continuing down this path. And I think also to one of the reasons why I'm doing better is because I have made a pretty big decision, life wise, and I'm not ready to share it yet. But when the time is right, I will share and I will share the reasons why. And hopefully if someone is going to a similar situation, they may glean some inspiration from my experience and what I ultimately decided to do, but it is still very, very premature to share. So for that I will be waiting.

Amaka 00:10:11 But when the time is right, I will share that. So, having made that decision, I'm also feeling better. because it has been weighing on me for a while and I just had to, decide. I just had to move forward. And I was kind of nervous and anxious, but deep down I knew this is what I wanted to do, and I've finally made it official. unofficial. But it will be official soon. and I'm already feeling better because of it. So with that, what else? Let me talk about swimming a little bit. So I had my third swimming class this week with my instructor. And it is going, it's going I, I wonder about myself sometimes, and I say that because I really put a lot of pressure on myself. Like, I don't know why I thought that maybe I would take to learning how to swim quickly. Like, you know, the first class was pretty intro stuff how to breathe in the water, how to just be acclimated, how to not be kind of nervous and all that stuff.

Amaka 00:11:45 and I've always liked being in a water. Being in water and, and, you know, swimming, quote unquote, because I can float on my back. So I kind of just move being on my back. I don't know, I guess maybe I thought that I would start really getting it by, like, the second class. I don't know. but I'm finding that swimming, learning how to do it correctly is very technical. And you are trying to have personally, this is my personal experience. You are ultimately trying to have your body do different things in tandem, and it is supposed to like just happen, you know, almost like get to the point where it feels natural and I'm not at that place yet, Like I'm learning to flutter my ankles to kind of propel me forward. I'm learning to generate power from my hips. I'm learning to, you know, properly stroke in the water with my hands. I'm learning, how to turn side to side to open that air pocket. I'm learning how to do that quickly so that I don't really slow down, all while trying to figure out how to relax.

Amaka 00:13:07 And I'm going to be honest, I'm struggling a little bit. I think this last class, I'm starting to get it. But like, I'm also thinking about how my expectations were way off in terms of the timeline, for how long it would take to really get this. And like, it got me to the point where I was even getting worried that I wouldn't even be able to really know how to swim by my eighth class, which is my last class. and it was really starting to stress me out. I'm like, and mind you, this was me after the second class. Like, I literally have six classes left. I was like, why am I not getting this? but yeah, I, I'm really thankful for my coach. So accommodating, so gracious, so patient with me. A very good teacher knows how to explain the technicals to where I get it. And ultimately it just boils down to practice. I'm really trying to get to the gym 1 to 2 times in between classes, so that I can just study and practice what I was taught at class.

Amaka 00:14:24 It's not easy. It's not easy. And I another thing too, like, I haven't felt like a student in this way in a really long time and I think there is a degree of vulnerability that I am grappling with. You know, taking what my coach says, and then he'll say, okay, do it. And then I attempt it and I'm failing. and then he'll be like, okay. And he'll explain it again and I'll be like, okay, I got it. And he was like, okay, do it, and I'll attempt it and I'll fail. But but those those examples are becoming fewer, thankfully. Just being like, vulnerable in that way and putting myself out there in that way. I am not used to it. I'm not used to it. But I'm pushing through. I'm pushing through because I want to be a swimmer. I love being in the water. It does not feel like exercise to me. So I know if I can get this and I will, I'll get it.

Amaka 00:15:42 I know that if I can get this, it's going to be a type of exercise that I don't even have to, like, struggle to become motivated. I'll just be like, okay, I'm going swimming today. My goal is to do however many laps and then I go, I get into the pool, I do my laps, I'm done. I don't feel the work because I just love being in the water. I feel the work after I'm out and it's been a little bit of time, and then I feel like I've actually done like a strength training workout because I was really, working my core and my legs and my hips and my arms last class with like, you know, stretching out for the strokes and generating power in my hips and, stretching out my legs and doing the flutter kicks and everything. It is a workout. But yeah, I am determined. I'm determined no matter how silly I may look in my class, no matter how many times I may fail, I'm going to keep going, I'm going to keep going, and I'm going to get there.

Amaka 00:16:53 another thing too, that I have noticed is from the first class when my instructor would like, show me something to do, and then he would be like, okay, do it. And I would do it. Part of me would be anticipating positive reinforcement from him. And when I didn't get it, I noticed I would feel down a little bit, like I wouldn't show it. I would just push through. You know, he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't give me constructive criticism, especially in the beginning. But, you know, I think and I don't know what I'm going to talk about this, but I'll just give a little bit of detail about just, you know, growing up and positive reinforcement that I longed for, particularly from my dad, I felt like was linked to accomplishment and high level accomplishment. So, you know, I think part of that I still struggle with, you know, wanting positive reinforcement from figures, particularly in this case, my swimming coach, who is an older black gentleman, you know, my father fits that description.

Amaka 00:18:16 And him teaching me something that requires a particular level of skill and me trying to master that skill. And me wanting positive reinforcement along the way, but not necessarily getting it because, you know, he's teaching me something and I need to be able to accomplish these little tasks in order to master the whole thing. And, you know, when he would offer me feedback in a way that would help me improve if he didn't automatically tell me, oh, good job, I would kind of be like, like just inside. I wouldn't show it. I would just be like, okay, let's do it. But deep down I'd be like, And I noticed that even after the first class, I was like, why? Why is this happening? And I realized because I have longed for positive reinforcement. Not so much now, but apparently there's still a part of me that has this, but much, much, much, much more. When I was younger, teens, pre-teens, elementary school. I longed for a positive reinforcement, particularly from my dad, but I would get it when I maintained, when I achieved and maintained a high level of accomplishment.

Amaka 00:19:35 So listen. Emotional maturity and awareness is a lifelong journey because sometimes you think that you are over this stuff. You have mastered these emotions. You know why you are how you are. You know how to kind of manage intense feelings and stuff. And I was reminded a couple of weeks ago that is not true, because apparently I have this swimming coach who I really, really appreciate his teaching style. And obviously it has nothing to do with him. This is all a me thing because of, you know, childhood experiences. So that's something else that I've been thinking about recently, and, yeah, I'm gonna kind of keep working through it, but I'm just glad that it was brought to like, my consciousness because I it's probably been subconscious for forever, you know, but because I have achieved such a high level of accomplishment just in life. And I'm not trying to sound like stuck up or whatever, but by standard measures, it's true. You know, now I'm in a situation where I am the student and I am starting from the bottom, as they say, and I'm trying to become better and skilled at this activity, which is swimming.

Amaka 00:21:15 And I'm looking for positive reinforcement. And when I don't get it, it And I'm a little bit down internally. So there's always something. There's always something that needs to be worked through. There's always something that needs attention. There's always something that's meant to elevate your level of self-awareness. There's always something. What this has taught me is that I'm never going to reach a destination. I'm always going to be on a journey of emotional maturity. So, yeah, that's that. what else am I talking about? I started watching Masterclass again. I had a subscription in 2021 or no, 2020. I bought a one year subscription for my birthday in 2020, but once the one year subscription was over. I did not renew, but I decided to renew recently. And I really love the whole masterclass series. I love all the different types of fields that they have experts speak about. And last week I was watching Elaine Welteroth series on kind of leveling up your career. I really appreciated it because I do have a I do have a lot of aspirations when it comes to my field of psychiatry and mental health and how I can kind of parlay that into other things.

Amaka 00:22:57 So just a little aside, if anyone has been kind of tinkering with, oh, you know, I've been seeing these masterclass as, are they worth it? I think they are. Not everything is going to be relevant to you, obviously, but I think especially with the pedigree of experts that they have on there, Like, these are like top folks in their field. So being able to kind of gather expert information from them, regardless of whatever topic I think is, valuable. And I think for the price, it's, it's worth it. So yeah. So I'm sure you guys have seen the title of this episode, we're going to be talking about this book that I'm reading right now. I have not finished it, and I typically like to talk about books after I'm done. well, you know, that's not true. As soon as I said that, I was like, that's not true because I have how many books in my library already or how many episodes in my library already where I did parts.

Amaka 00:24:08 But I have been trying more recently to talk about books when I'm done. I talked about a topic habits when I finished it, and I talked about tiny, beautiful things after I finished it. but I don't want to wait until I'm done with this book. I started it. I was already having thoughts and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to talk about this book as I read it. So the book I'm talking about is The Sex Lives of African Women by Nana Darkoa Sekyiamah. And I really hope I really tried. I really tried with the name. I'm very sensitive about names because of my name. So I really try to get them right. so yeah, we're going to talk about this book. What I've read so far, my opinions and yeah, go from there. First off, would I recommend that? Yeah I would I'm enjoying it. it's very interesting To read about women and their relationship to sex, and particularly African women and women in the diaspora and their relationship to sex, and how it has been shaped by their childhood and different experiences, and how it has morphed and changed and their relationship to it now.

Amaka 00:25:41 So I'll just kind of just dive in. I'm just going to kind of talk about what I find to be true, and which I feel like I kind of kind of have always been aware of. But, you know, sometimes reading the words and having it be in the forefront of your mind is like, makes you really think about it. So this book reminds me, you know, sometimes society and, present culture will have you feel like sexist, meant to be enjoyed predominantly by the men. Sex is meant to be pursued predominantly by the men. And that's not true. That's not true. Women very much in this day and age love sex, love to have sex and prioritize it. And if they are not, if their needs are not getting met, then they make decisions about it. many women love sex just as much as men do, if not more. And I feel like that truth is sometimes threatening to some folks, and I kind of understand why, but I need if there's one thing that I think I'm going to make.

Amaka 00:27:13 Kind of like a mission for myself and the people in my world is to prioritize your enjoyment and your pleasure. Let it not be all about your partner or your man in your life, you know, because those are mostly the type of messages that we internalize just living in society. Women having sexual agency is not welcomed, and it is shamed a lot of the time. And because of that, I believe a lot of women's relationship to sex is warped, and trying to make that better for themselves brings pushback because there is a lot of, I guess, unpredictability perhaps, or uncertainty perhaps that comes with a woman who is secure in her sexual agency and knowing what she wants, she's not able to be controlled in that way. And with that, I think that's a lot of the reason why it's discouraged. And I'm finding that with reading this book, that's something that I want to however, way I can shed better light on, because sex therapy is a form of therapy, and a lot of times women are in need of that because of how they've been raised to view sex.

Amaka 00:28:59 And a lot of the times it's not in a way that benefits them. It's portrayed in a way to where they performed the acts for the benefit of the men. And within this conversation, I'm. I'm speaking more so about heterosexual couples. They are taught essentially, and particularly in African culture, which can be very, very patriarchal. It varies from country to country, but the patriarchy is alive and well. They are taught that sex as an act, sex as an identity, is something that the men can espouse freely, and the women are there to support it, and they're there to provide the pleasure for them. When it comes to pleasure for the women, that is a non-starter. and ultimately, the sexual act will result in procreation, having children, having multiple children in some cases. So yeah, ultimately, one thing that I've gotten from this book and I'm going to scream from the rooftops, is that women deserve to have good sex lives. Women deserve to have just as good of a sex life as men.

Amaka 00:30:29 Women deserve to prioritize sex the way men do. Women deserve to feel unashamed about wanting sex and having sex the way men do. And I am not really arguing about that. I'm really not. I'm still grappling with this because my upbringing really, impacted me. Not not necessarily in a negative way, but I still hold on to some things that I was taught when I was younger. particularly around virginity. But I'm coming around to this idea that virginity is really about control. And when it comes to that whole concept, perhaps I'm wrong. I'm just saying, based off of my experience, that I don't see the idea of virginity taught to men the way it's taught to women. I see women told, mind you, still, within the context of African women, patriarchal society, I see women taught to keep themselves to make sure they're pure for their husband to not do anything, to defile themselves, for their husband to make sure they essentially just don't have sex until you're married. And that is from, you know, biblical or biblical place.

Amaka 00:32:12 But perhaps I would subscribe to that a little bit more if that message was enforced with men the way it was with women, and for the fact that it's not for the fact that when for the fact that men are not penalized for the fact that they're not chastised, not even remotely in the same way, in fact, it's often encouraged, not even remotely in the same way that women are. I'm just like, I call bullshit on this now, because if it was truly, in my opinion, if it was truly about saving yourself for your lifelong partner, then that message would be that message would be put out equally between the sexes. So like I said, I'm still trying to grapple with that whole thing because I it was preached to me and ingrained in me from childhood. But being an adult now and just having some life experiences and starting to think for myself a little bit, I'm like, don't, don't come and tell me that now unless you're telling everyone this. And not just the women.

Amaka 00:33:45 Don't come and tell me that a woman needs to hold herself and be a virgin for her husband. Meanwhile, the man has permission to do what he wants. And then when he is finally at the point where he wants to settle down, everything is just well and forgiven. But if a woman were to have a rich sexual past, she is cast as an afterthought. She is cast as not viable marriage material. She is cast as someone who can't be a life partner. She's cast as someone who can't be a good mother to children. It's just exhausting. It's exhausting, and I really want us to divorce this. The worst, this whole notion. that's a long way from where we are now. But if we can first start from just kind of leveling the playing field and just, you know, just start from there, that'll be something. Another thing I wanted to talk about from this book that I kind of enjoyed reading, is that marriage isn't for everybody, and this is coming from someone who's married and is happy with her relationship.

Amaka 00:35:10 But having marriage be the pinnacle, the ultimate goal, the ultimate accomplishment for a woman. I don't like that. And I fight back on that. because everyone is not aspiring for that. Marriage is not in the cards for everybody. Marriage isn't something everybody wants. And if you are not the marrying type, but you feel pressured to go that way, it's not going to end well. And when I say marriage is not for everybody, I'm thinking particularly about women because they are the ones who marriage as an institution, as a concept, as just a means of survival. That's who is made to subscribe to the whole notion. I just want folks to offer some space to the option of women who willingly don't want to be married, and that is okay. That is okay. I want folks to not judge women who have made the conscious decision that they don't want to be legally bound to somebody else. It is okay. It is okay. There are women in the book who got married and realized it wasn't for them and left.

Amaka 00:36:49 and I am happy for them that they were able to make that decision for themselves and leave because in the society that they were living in. You know, it's hard to push back against the idea of marriage and having the wherewithal and the courage to say, I'm not getting married. It's almost impossible. So being so young with these messages to like you don't even you don't even farther, more entertain an idea of not getting married to begin with. It's just it comes with a territory as being a woman. So yes, with that, I applaud the women in the book who got married but found that it wasn't for them and left, and now feel better and feel like themselves and feel more fulfilled and are enjoying life. Marriage is not for everybody And I really hope that we can move in the direction where everyone's decisions about marriage are respected and that women are not looked down on if they don't go that way. One theme that I have seen in this book so far is that unfortunately, women that prioritize themselves, particularly in this way, make men feel so insecure.

Amaka 00:38:27 Not all men. I wish I didn't feel like I had to say that, but, women who prioritize their happiness, their agency, and the quality of their sex life, women who prioritize that over a man. Oftentimes the men in that situation act out in a way that shows their level of insecurity. And I think this also goes back to control, because they're not able to wield any control on that woman. because if she's able to do that, then, you know, what else is she capable of? Especially since a lot of times from childhood, these messages are ingrained. You know, there was a woman in the novel who was kind of given an ultimatum. She was a sex worker. In the book, she's a sex worker. And she was presented an ultimatum by her partner at that time, either him or her job. And she chose her job and he became violent physically towards her. That's just one example. There are other examples in the book where women who are not shy about what they want.

Amaka 00:40:06 The men act out in such unfortunate ways. It makes me sad because it doesn't have to be like this, you know? I feel like if anything, a woman that knows what she wants is able to communicate it, and if anything, that will enhance the sexual experience between you and the person. But I guess there are men out there that don't see it that way. They see it as an affront. They see it as a threat. And it's sad. It's sad to me because I think there's a way to have this work for all parties involved. You have a woman who has some experience. She knows what she wants. She knows what works for her. She knows what she likes. She's able to communicate that to you, and it makes the receiving person feel less than. And I don't think that should be the case. Like, I really wish it didn't go that way. That was tough. You know those examples I was reading in the book that was that was tough to read, because I think that also speaks to the messages that are put forth to men, you know, about how they need to be, you know, know it alls when it comes to sex.

Amaka 00:41:33 They need to be infallible when it comes to sex. They need to they need to not be challenged in that way. And that's just Unreasonable. That's just. It doesn't make sense to me. So yeah, that was another thing. And I wish it wasn't the case. And I hope, you know, I'm certainly going to try and shed light in this way as much as possible. Like, it doesn't have to be that way. Two partners who know what they want and is able to communicate that to each other, I think sets the unit up for success. but yeah. Yeah. I'm going to read a couple quotes from the book. One. This is the first thing I underlined in the book about how, because of how a lot of us have grown up knowing what we know about sex, whether it was right or wrong. We are, as we get older, changing in different ways. Our relationship to sex is changing, and a lot of us are on a healing journey because what we thought we knew to be true is not.

Amaka 00:43:06 So now we're on a quest to figure out what is true for us. So here is the quote that I think is relevant in that way. My conclusion is very much this. And this is Nana. My conclusion is very much this. We're all on a journey towards sexual freedom and agency. In order to get there, we need to heal. Healing looks different for everybody. For some of the women in this book, healing came about through celibacy and spiritual growth. For others, healing came through taking back power as a dominatrix and sex worker. For some others, healing is still part of the journey they need to travel. So I think that that excerpt does well to explain that how someone realizes their truth when it comes to sex will vary widely. And you know, the conclusions that some people get, too, will be vastly different or even contradictory, contradictory to conclusions that other people arrive to. But at the end of it, no one's reality is less than someone else's. No one's truth about sex for themselves is less than anyone else's.

Amaka 00:44:33 and I'm talking particularly within the context of women because because we can see just from the quote that I read that it can vary on a spectrum from celibacy to being a sex worker. So I think at the the end all, be all is that all of those realities for women ought to be respected, regardless of whether it aligns with how you feel about sex or not. Another quote that I want to read has to do about the concept of marriage and what marriage means for women, particularly within the context of this book. In African Society and Patriarchy, I feel like I need to repeat that every so often so that, it's understood. So here's the quote. The desire for marriage came from the healing that my fate brought me, including reckoning with the loss of my father. Prior to converting to Islam, I had never fully grabbed with the deep hunger I felt for a father, and Islam allowed me to acknowledge that. I began to recognize that I was looking for my father in everything I did. Another part of the deep desire that I had for marriage was a need for companionship and sex.

Amaka 00:45:56 I also knew that marriage could give me a type of leverage and opportunity that could help me move from one space to another, and I find this to be particularly true in African societies, less so for like the West and America, United States in particular. It's still a part of US society, but I would say it's much more so for the African continent. So I'm going to continue. I also knew that marriage could give me a type of leverage and opportunity that can help me move from one space to another. We live on a continent where our status as women is very precarious. I believe this applies across the board, whether you're a bi, straight or queer woman And so heterosexual marriage at least provides a measure of protection to women. I think this is a question that black and African women need to ask themselves more often. What can I do to preserve myself and my children in a way that allows them to move to the next level? So this quote, I think, pretty much encapsulates what I was saying before that marriage is an institution.

Amaka 00:47:04 The concept is presented to women, not just as a means of status, but as a means of survival, a means of protection. Because when you are not within that protection, you are seen as other. You are a kind of cast out, quote unquote, exiled, quote unquote, because you don't fit the narrative that continues to perpetuate What the role of women are in society. You are not pursuing the pinnacle that is marriage. and when you don't, that brings about consequences. One more thing that I will talk about, which, kind of made me chuckle to read because I find this to be true, too. I'll just go ahead and read it and then talk about it. It's been a big stretch going from observing the marriage my parents had to this one and this this is an excerpt from Nora's story. And to provide just a little bit of background, she converted to the Islam faith and entered a polygamous marriage with a man who has two other wives. It's been a big stretch going from observing the marriage my parents had to this one.

Amaka 00:48:23 And yet there are many things that I like about my own marriage. I like that I don't have to see my husband every day. I don't even have to talk to him every day. This gives me a lot of time for myself. I can read, I can study, and I have time to work on my art. So I'm going to stop there. I liked that she said that she doesn't talk to her husband every day. She doesn't see her husband every day. And I think that's a little taboo. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but, you know, the way that relationships are portrayed in many societies, the way that good relationships are portrayed is that you see your partner every day. You talk to them every day. You interact every day. And I might be in the minority, but I would venture to say that that's not needed. You don't need to talk to your partner every day. You don't need to see your partner every day. And it doesn't make your relationship less than anyone else's.

Amaka 00:49:33 in fact, I would venture to say that it provides another layer of richness because, you know, a lot of people know this saying absence makes the heart grow fonder. If you are a part for a time, it doesn't mean that life stops. Your life keeps going. You still have things you're doing. You still have things you're attending to. When you guys finally reconvene, you know the conversation oftentimes can be richer, it could be more substantial, you can feel more connected. And I think that that's not really taken into account, you know, because for some reason, the best relationships are the ones where the partners are attached by the hip. And I don't necessarily think that needs to be the case. You can have take it from me who actually has lived this. You can have loving, fulfilling, rich, amazing romantic relationships and you are not talking to your partner every day and you're not speaking to them every day, and your relationship is not threatened. If anything, it can enhance it and it can make it grow.

Amaka 00:50:53 And you guys, could be as committed as ever. So with that, I think I'm going to end the episode here. hitting an hour. So I think that's a good place to stop. I want to thank you guys for listening, as always. if you have any thoughts you want to share with me, please feel free to email me at BW podcast at gmail.com. Again, that's BW podcast at gmail.com. Feel free to, contact me through my socials in the description if you would like. if this episode or past episodes have impacted you in a positive way. Please rate and review on the podcast platform that you are listening from. please share. Please recommend anyone who you think might enjoy this episode or any past episodes. Please subscribe on your preferred platform. And that is it. Thank you guys again. Appreciate you all. Thank you for continuing to be on this journey with me. And that is it. I'll talk to you guys soon. Be well. Bye.