Episode 06: Set Boundaries, Find Peace Pt. 2 by Nedra Glover Tawwab

In this episode of the podcast, I reflect on personal experiences, and the importance of setting boundaries through continued discussion around Nedra Glover Tawwab's book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace." I explore the complexities of ending relationships, emphasizing self-care, and the necessity of prioritizing one's mental and emotional health within the roles with play in our lives.

Amaka (00:00:15) - Hey, everyone. Welcome back. Welcome back to the Bibliotherapy for Black Women podcast. I'm your host, Amaka, and I really appreciate you guys coming back. I hope you all are doing well. It is a Saturday morning when I'm recording. I'm at my desk. I'm looking out my window as I usually do. and just thinking back on my week, it was I kind of took, like, an impromptu vacation week. some rescheduling restructuring with my work schedule for this week made it so that I had a couple more days off than I usually do. So I've had more personal time for myself this week, which I feel like I needed, and I'm coming up to a busier week this week. you know, from tomorrow on it gets to be a lot busier for me in general. Once like mid to late October rolls around. I have a lot of birthdays in my family around the holiday season. A lot of like milestone dates outside of like the regular Thanksgiving and Christmas. So a lot is usually going on, with myself and with my loved ones around this time, I heading, you know, winding down the year and heading into the new year.

Amaka (00:02:02) - So I'm starting to think about. You know, everything that. Is going to be happening and, you know, just getting my mind right for that. at the point that I'm recording, we are halfway through October, which is kind of crazy, like I. I think about how fast, for me at least this year went. I think about how I practically had no summer because I was studying for my boards. as soon as I graduated, I started studying. I studied for from like late May to late July and then took the test. And then August was about getting my paperwork and other things together for, you know, applying for licensure and certification and everything like that and just making sure every next step was getting done. So I think back sometimes, like, I don't really think I had a summer in 2021. and I don't know, that's been a little bit of a trend the past couple of years. You know, I was busy with board studying this summer. Last summer was Covid summer, and so I didn't really do much.

Amaka (00:03:29) - The summer before that, I was studying for my NCLEX and I took the NCLEX in August, late August. I didn't really have much of a summer in 2019 either, so let's let's hope for 2022 that I'll actually be able to have time to relax. I'm sure I'll be working, but I hope that I'll be able to take at least a trip or two. You know, somewhere far away, somewhere nice, somewhere tropical perhaps. So I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, and I'm definitely reflecting over the year so far. I tend to reflect more so than usual. When my birthday is coming around and when the year is starting to wind down. so we're getting pretty close to the end of the year. October ends in a couple of weeks, and then you have Thanksgiving and then Christmas, and then before you know it, we're saying, Happy New Year. It's 2022. And for me, I don't know if this is true for others, but I feel like the older I've gotten with every year that has come, time just goes faster, like faster, like I can't remember having to almost need to catch my breath when I was younger.

Amaka (00:05:07) - I feel like time went at a more manageable pace when I was younger. I feel like that, you know, when I was in my pre-teens and teen years, even, like. Early 20s. I feel like time started to go exponentially faster. Maybe when I hit like my mid 20s. Like I would celebrate my birthday and it would feel like I literally blinked and I'm celebrating my birthday again. You know, I think some of that just comes with you get older, you get busier, more things are demanding your time. You know, the days are coming and going, coming and going. And if you really don't. Become or stay intentional with your time and being present and checking in with yourself and seeing how you're doing. Like it'll just slip away and then you'll wake up, or you'll just sit at your desk one day, like, how is it October? You know, how are we almost at Thanksgiving? How are we almost at Christmas? How are we almost about to say Happy New Year? So, you know, I like I said, I tend to be the reflective type just in general.

Amaka (00:06:37) - but I, I tend to be more reflective or on my birthday and the holidays. so I'm definitely checking in with myself more these days. and I encourage you guys, you know, if you haven't done that in a while, check in with yourself, see how you're doing. Are you feeling like time is going way too fast? You know, are there ways that perhaps you can be a little bit more present every day? Kind of, you know, sit still and and and take in. What's going on with you and making sure you're okay. I know that it helps me. So, you know, I'm just putting it out there. It might help those who are listening to. So that's kind of where I am right now. Let's dive into the book. So last week I introduced this book by Nadja Glover. Taub called Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and, I recorded and the part one, and this is the part two. I am pretty sure there going to be three parts to this, but for those anyone out there who really wants to have a guide in terms of boundary setting, you know, for self-care, for having more time for yourself, for really figuring, helping yourself to figure out what is priority for you and what you might need to kind of let fall away.

Amaka (00:08:26) - This is a good book, and even with this three part series, I don't scratch the surface of this book. It's dense. It has a lot a lot of great information. It has exercise and journal prompts after you finish a chapter. It gives you prompts and questions to reflect on and answers so that you can take stock of how the information you have just read applies to your life and how you may need to make changes. How you might need to tighten up some areas. so it is worth purchasing your own copy and reading it for yourself and really taking it in. Because, you know, I come and I, I share my thoughts about these books, but that's all they are. They're my thoughts. You know, I am I am processing the information. In these books from my perspective. So it's only what I'm getting. And hopefully some of what I'm saying is resonating with those that are listening. But you really have to, you know, have the book for yourself and to be able to get what you need from it.

Amaka (00:09:46) - Because what I'm talking about on these episodes is, you know, parts of the book that resonate with me the most. and that's different for everybody. So I say all that to say it's worth purchasing, if you want to improve the relationships in your life around you and with yourself, I think it's, good to have 100%. So just a couple of big things for me from the book that I wanted to discuss on this second part of the series. The first one being, Children and Boundaries. this resonated with me because I went a little bit in more detail in the first part about, you know, my childhood and the expectations and responsibilities that were put on me, and not really feeling like I had the space to set boundaries. that I had the liberty to do so. and the book talks about, you know, how children are good with having boundaries. You know, they're not really burdened the way we are as adults sometimes with what others may think when we institute boundaries and when we really say what we want, then I really burdened by that, where burdened by that.

Amaka (00:11:33) - And I think consequently we sometimes then burden the children. You know, when it comes to perhaps they don't really interact well with a particular person, whether it's a friend or a family member. You know, we may, meet them, the child might meet them. And, you know, we want the child to greet the person, but they don't want to. And in the child's mind, what I think in the child's mind, they don't really think much of it. But then we think, based off of the years of conditioning and socialization, that, you know, what the child is doing is rude, and then we might force them to, you know, ignore the boundary that they've set and do what they did not want to do, which definitely sends a message. You know, and I think that it's something we need to be a little bit more cognizant about. I feel like we could learn a lesson from kids. You know, they they they know once they know how to say yes and no, they use it and they use it.

Amaka (00:13:05) - Truthfully, I believe, and unfortunately, as they get older, they continue to get messages about what will happen with them or to them if they have these boundaries. And I think slowly with the messages that they are bombarded with day in and day out, they start to not really have them anymore. They start to ignore them, you know, based off of the reactions they get from the adults and caretakers around them. Children, you know, pick up cues and they make connections and they realize that if I do, a B will happen, you know? and sometimes it might in within themselves, they might see, you know, if I say this, they're not using their perhaps they're not using the word if I institute this boundary. I hardly think so. but in the way that they understand. They'll, you know, get the message that if I say, I don't like this person, you know, I'll get a negative response or I'll be called bad. You know, I'm trying to put it in, perhaps the words that the child would use in their mind.

Amaka (00:14:47) - And, you know, at the end of the day, the child doesn't want to be seen as bad thinking right now if it's like an older child. But yeah, it does a number. It does a number. Over time. I'm just thinking about myself and, you know, kind of like growing in that, not really feeling like I could have boundaries. And then growing up and going out on my own and kind of learning myself and learning what I could have for myself and the fact that boundaries are important to have you know, and not in a bad way. I feel like boundaries, definitely. The word boundary, has more so of a negative connotation, but they help. They help. And Nedra mentions in the book more than once that a healthy relationship. Will be okay with healthy boundaries. a relationship that might need some reevaluating, you know, boundaries if they are instituted. May bring up the parts of the relationship that need to be discussed or kind of checked in on, and then if.

Amaka (00:16:16) - If things. Turn for the worse. Unfortunately, it might be a relationship that you have to reevaluate whether it's in your life altogether, or perhaps it takes a backseat or it's not as much of a priority. So going back to kids, I just feel really strongly about that. I when I'm around children, you know, I don't force them to do anything, whether it's hug me or give me a high five, I feel like I also think back to the book, what Happened to you? My episode from, a couple episodes ago, and I remember Doctor Perry talking about how kids need more than a couple separate interactions. With adults and strangers in general to start to get comfortable and maybe come to you a little bit more and interact with you a little bit more, perhaps give you that high five that you were looking for at the first interaction, or give you the hug that you wanted when you first met the kid, you know? So from even a more scientific perspective, you know. It.

Amaka (00:17:47) - It makes sense. When you even, you know, consider when you're an adult, when you're an adult and you are meeting people for the first time. You might not give them a hug. You might give them a handshake, you know, because you don't want to be. You don't want to come off as rude, but kids don't think that far. You know, kids don't really care about that. They just did just do and say what they feel, you know? No holds barred 100%. but I feel like sometimes, you know, we, we take personal the, the behaviors that children exhibit to us. But a lot of times it mirrors what we do and feel as adults. If we're meeting someone new, we don't completely let our guards down. You know, we kind of wade the water slowly. We dip our toe in with them. We start. We may start with some small talk. We may, you know, ask them how they're doing, what they do, what their hobbies are.

Amaka (00:19:02) - You know, we start slow. We start slow with adults. And we might we might do more. Then children might deal with that first interaction. Because we have more tools, we have more strategies about how to navigate first impressions and first conversations with adults. But children don't often have that. So, you know, in order to remain safe and continue to feel safe, they'll just say, no, no, I don't want to. Or they, you know, you might ask them to give the person a high five or a hug and they just kind of like, you know, stay away because they don't really have the tools and strategies that we have as adults to navigate. You know, those first impressions and first interactions that we are able to use with other adults while still keeping a little bit of a wallop until we are able to get to know the person a little bit better, you know? Yeah, like with ourselves, it may take two, three, four, five in person interactions before we really feel comfortable with someone you know and maybe are able to give them a hug or give them a more, a better embrace or, or welcoming as opposed to the first interaction where we maybe just said hi and gave a smile and did some small talk.

Amaka (00:20:32) - So, you know, sometimes it's helpful, I think, to. Consider what you would do as an adult in situations where we might put children, and also remember that they're pretty much doing what we would do, but they're just using the tools that they have, and sometimes the tools that they have a come off as rude, but they're not being rude. You know, they're just trying to navigate this new person who they don't know. And it might take a couple of interactions before, you know, they walk up to you and then, you know, maybe ask you a question and run away or, you know, actually walk up to you the next time and, and put out their hand to give you a high five. Or maybe if you ask them for a high five in the second or third interaction, they'll actually give it to you, you know? And then maybe later on, after you've seen them more than a few times, you know, they might actually come and hug you without you asking for it.

Amaka (00:21:33) - So I feel like we need to kind of give the benefit of the doubt that we do with adults, sometimes to kids. because like I said, you know, what they're doing is not personal. It reflects what we do as adults, but we just navigate it in different ways because we are older and we have more tools. So that whole part about children resonated with me and about how we don't, Sometimes we don't. We're not so aware of what we do when the example we're setting around children with boundaries, and that that's definitely something that for myself, you know. And for others, I hope too. We have to keep in mind because kids soak up everything and they take cues from us, particularly those in their world who they see every day. If they are seeing a mom who does everything for everyone else and. Never says no. You know, and feels like they have to be there for everyone and doesn't take time for themselves, but is constantly exhausted and, you know, out looks like they haven't slept and, you know, things like that.

Amaka (00:23:09) - That's a cue that a child may take from when they're, you know, young to becoming an adult that, you know, being a woman or a person in general. You just always have to be there for the people around you. And then perhaps you are not able to set out time for yourself and, you know, refill your own cup because it gets to a point where if you're just giving and giving, giving and giving, then you're giving from an empty cup and then you just have none left to give while you're still trying to give and you're running on fumes and it just doesn't end well. So, you know, I, I want to keep that in mind for me, and, and the young ones around me and, I don't have children yet at least. But, you know, I'm hoping when that time comes, I'm able to set an example of, you know, giving to others within my capacity and not going over my capacity and also being able to give to myself and refill my cup and tend to my needs and not feel guilty about it and not feel like I'm being selfish because it's necessary.

Amaka (00:24:34) - It's imperative. I would say, you know, it is not only beneficial to you, but it's beneficial to. Everyone around you in your world who you know you lend help to. If you feel like you are taking care of. If you feel like your cup is full, if you feel like you have. Energy to draw from because you're not running on E! Then not only do you benefit, but your loved ones benefit. The people that you lend time and energy to benefit your children benefit. So I really think this is important, you know? Honoring children's boundaries, you know. Unless they're doing something that is egregious or, you know, they need some redirection. You know, I, I feel like. We need to let children, we need to honor their boundaries so that they grow up being able to hear their voice, their inner voice. Because those messages that we give to them as they are when they are young and they're getting older, you know, it stifles their inner voice.

Amaka (00:25:58) - It's one of the things that stifles their inner voice. And then they have to do the work, like I had to do, to really cultivate that voice back and be able to hear it and be able to listen to it and trust it. I think that that work would not be that work. Doesn't have to be as hard as it is for some people, me included. If we're given the space to have boundaries when we're younger, you know, because. It's our inner voice that's telling us to do these things when we're younger. Of course we need guidance and direction, but we need space to be able to hear ourselves what our intuition is telling us, so that we are not struggling to hear that voice when we're adults. And that's also, I believe, what brings about issues with boundaries when we're adults, because we can't hear our inner voice, you know, sometimes or we hear it, but we ignore it because we've been taught to do that. and I'm thinking particularly about women in this case, and I'm thinking particularly about black women in this case.

Amaka (00:27:24) - So those were my thoughts when it came to boundaries with kids and getting older. And the outcomes that may be perpetuated, whether we honor them or we don't. So moving on to another piece that really, really resonated with me so far in the book, was the process of. Getting to the point where you realize you have to end a relationship with someone because. It is. More detrimental to remain. In contact or continue interacting with them. than it is to cease communication. And I really appreciated what Nedra did in terms of. Laying bare in the book the fact that the person that institutes the cut off or, you know, deciding to end that relationship, they don't do that on a whim. They don't wake up one day and say, that's it. You know it. It takes a lot of thought and time and going back and forth and thinking through things, everything, before you really come back to that decision. and there is a grief process with that. And there are times when I'm speaking from a personal place because I've gone through this.

Amaka (00:29:24) - There is a time where you are like, did I do the right thing for myself? And I feel like deep down, you know, but, you know, also, depending on how close the person is to you, whether it's a friend or a family member, you go through a grief process with that ending, you know, regardless of the setbacks that the relationship had. You know, I am pretty sure it wasn't all bad. You know, you grieve the fact that the person is no longer in your life. At all. And you grieve the good times and you know you make the decision that you make because, you know, ultimately it's the best thing for you, whether it's permanently or temporarily. You know, it's the best thing for you, but you can still miss that person. Dearly. You can still miss them so much. You can, you know, think back to the the parts of the relationship that were good. You might think. Did I do the right thing? You might, you know, time might go by and you might want to, you know, check in on them and see how they're doing.

Amaka (00:31:03) - But, you know, you stop yourself because you have to remember why you made the decision you made. Other folks may not understand. In fact, I would venture to say very few, very few people. And when I say few, I may. I mean like 1 or 2 might really understand and respect the reasons why you made the decision you made. Because. Everyone will. I feel like personally for me. Majority of folks won't or don't. so it's, you know, it's the work of. Sometimes feeling like you have to defend your decision, whether you go into detail or not, you know? and then you're dealing with the grief. Of the relationship ending. And you're dealing with missing the person. But ultimately having to. You know, stand your ground and knowing what you're doing for yourself is the right thing for yourself because you're not coming to this decision lightly. I want to read just as quick excerpts about this that Nedra wrote in the book about ending a relationship or, you know, deciding to cut it off and, you know.

Amaka (00:32:41) - Accepting and letting go. It's in the chapter Blurred Lines. Make it plain. Chapter seven. So she writes, when you've tried setting boundaries and your requests are continuously violated, it may be time to consider cutting people off. And then this is where I started to underline. Of course, terminating a relationship isn't easy, so put a healthy plan in place to care for yourself through the process. Ending a relationship isn't a sign that you no longer care about the person. And this is the part where you know, I say that you grieve and you miss them, which she talks about too. it doesn't mean you don't love the person anymore. It doesn't mean that you don't. It doesn't mean that you don't care about them anymore. It doesn't mean that you are no longer concerned for their well-being any longer. But it just means that for you. When it comes to. The unique dynamic between you and that person and ultimately. A failing. Well, not you failing, but ultimately the efforts to change things for the better do not work out.

Amaka (00:34:08) - You know, you get to the point where you just have to make the decision and it's not easy. So right, ending a relationship isn't a sign that you no longer care about the person. It's an indicator of self-love, self-care, healthy boundaries, bravery, and your desire to be well. I think it's also important to keep in mind that you or let me, let me say from my from my perspective, I would much rather, you know, be well and be happy in my life with the person in it. I don't want them to not be in it. I would love to have. You know the relationship in my life, but. If it is to the detriment of your emotional health. Mental health. Then you have to weigh what's most important to you. And for me, I've gotten to the point where my mental health, my spiritual, my emotional health when it comes to relationships with others is priority. It's priority because, you know, life can be hard enough. The day to day of life can be hard enough.

Amaka (00:35:40) - And I don't know if this is something everyone goes through at a point, whether it's in their early 20s or mid 20s, early 30s, whenever where you really take stock. Of the relationships in your life and you really think about who adds to it. In a really beautiful and substantial way. Who the folks that when you're around them, you just. They help to fill your cup too. Sometimes because of just. The. Amazing time that you guys may have together, or the really deep conversations you guys have together, feeling like you came to a new understanding of yourself and of the other person when you guys talk. You know, feeling good at the end of those interactions. For myself. At this stage of life that I'm at now. I've really been thinking about that. I've been thinking about. You know, the people who I've come across. With. You know what, friends wise, who I love and I want to keep in touch with and keep in my life on a long term basis.

Amaka (00:37:11) - And then you, Mike, you know, come across folks, 1 or 2 people who, you know, you find that despite the work that you've done to really try and make things work, you have to make a decision that you don't want to make. And I've had to do that before. and it's not easy. But I say this to say that at the end of the day, it's really about making sure you're okay and making sure your mental health is good and your spiritual and emotional health is good. And getting to that point sometimes means making some really life changing decisions about the relationships in your life in that way. So. Yeah, it can be tough. It can be really, really, really tough. Like, it's not easy at all. And that's one part of growing up and being an adult that can really suck. You know, just. Having to face those truths. Not only are you facing truths about yourself and things that you do that you may not like, and you're trying to be better and improve different areas of your life, you have to really face truths about.

Amaka (00:38:50) - Relationships in your life and the people around you and in order to move forward. In and be in a positive place. You have to make decisions. And, I'm hoping everyone that's listening. First of all, if you're in the place, if you're in that place that I'm talking about, this book might help. I would recommend it. If you feel like you really need to take stock of the relationships in your life, and perhaps there are some relationships in your life where you haven't really expressed your needs. So I would. And Nigel talks about this in the book too. Like before you make the leap of perhaps ceasing communication with the person, like, have you talked about what you needed? Have you? sat down with them. Have you had a conversation with them? Have you given them a chance to take in and process what you need and. Make the changes. Because people. People I think are. Are worth giving the benefit of the doubt, you know, because they may just not know and you can't fault folks for.

Amaka (00:40:33) - You know, violating your boundaries when they don't know what they are. So before getting to the point of. Ending on a relationship. Think first if you've given them a chance to. Respect the changes that you would like to be made. For the relationship. And hopefully those changes are respected and you guys are able to continue that relationship. But if you get to the point where. You feel that, a more permanent change needs to be made in terms of no longer being in communication with the person? Just know that. I am telling you that I trust that you made that decision. For yourself. And I trust that you made the right decision for yourself. And if you need some support, I hope that you can feel that coming from me, because it's not easy and a lot of people don't understand. and a lot of people don't have to understand. But sometimes you want to be understood and you don't get that. So if there is anyone out there who had to make that decision, however long ago, whether it was recent or some time ago, know that, you're not alone, and I understand, and I support you.

Amaka (00:42:07) - And I support you as you move forward. So. I hope that. Anyone listening? I hope that the points that I talked about resonated. I hope something resonated. And ultimately, like I've said a couple of times in this episode, this book is worth buying. Get it? Even if you think you have pretty healthy boundaries. Netra has a quiz at the end of the book that I already took. and I found that there are some areas. When it comes to boundary setting that I can definitely improve on. And I think that could be said with a with everyone you know. You're not perfect. No one is perfect in every aspect of their life. And when it comes to being a little bit more assertive with what you want and being clearer and being more consistent, I think this book really helps. So with that, I'm going to end this episode. I want to thank you guys for listening, and I want to thank you guys for listening to The End. This is my sixth episode that I'm recording, and I'm really proud of myself for sticking to it.

Amaka (00:43:41) - I, I made a commitment to this long term project, and I'm hoping that the folks that have come along on this journey with me and new folks that will stumble upon this podcast, whether it's just whether it just comes up on your feed or it's recommended to you, I hope that you are able to take something from any episode that you listen to. I hope something resonates with you. I hope that. You feel good after you listen. And, yeah, I really I really appreciate it. If you if you turned on this episode and listened and listen to the end, I really, really, really appreciate it. You. You guys don't understand. I really do. And if you've pressed play on any of my previous episodes and listened to it and have taken the time to hear my thoughts. I really, really appreciate it. So again, I want to thank you guys for listening. If you want to reach out to me, please do. Please do. I would love to hear from you guys.

Amaka (00:45:05) - Just reach out to me via email at btbwpodcast at gmail.com. Again, that's btbwpodcast at gmail.com. Please. Recommend the podcast to folks that you think would like it. Please share. Please leave a review if you like the podcast on Apple Podcasts, so that folks see that the podcast is making a positive impact, and perhaps it will, encourage them to come along the journey with us. And yeah, that's it. Thank you guys for listening and I'll talk to you soon. Bye.